Symptoms
Posted by jamesviscosi on May 6, 2008
A while back, our vet suggested trying to get video of Tucker’s symptoms so that we could show it to the neurologist, who never got a really good look at them. (He just saw a few light twitches, so mild that he wasn’t even sure they were a symptom of anything.) The other day, we finally got some halfway decent footage. This is Tucker just after getting home from doing scent work:
He got his soloxine late because he was out unusually late doing his scenting. It’s not clear that his twitching is actually related to the low thyroid, though, as the pills have brought him back into the normal range and he’s been there for some time. Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts as to what this might be, we’d love to hear them.
May 6, 2008 at 7:44 am
Poor baby. I can’t imagine what it is.
May 6, 2008 at 7:57 am
I belong to the Yahoo/Vizsla Talk and Yahoo/Vizsla Hunt groups. If it’s ok with you I could post a link to this video in both groups. These folks are from all over and I think some of them are even vets. I know it would reach a wide range Vizsla knowledgable folks. I posted a note to these groups about a Wirehaired V that needed a home and she was adopted in TWO DAYS!
Let me know but I didn’t want to post without permission.
Sincerely,
Rockets Mom
P.S. - Prayers, snuggles and kisses to Tucker
May 6, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Jim - I’ve posted the link and gave a short blurb. I copied most of the biography you have under Tuckers tab at the top. Hopefully people will come here and post a comment.
May 6, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Hi,
Have you checked for a deficiency of Selenium and Magnesium? I have a V who exhibited similar symptoms but they got worse to the point she could not walk. Eventually she was put on a mineral supplement containing Selenium and Magnesium which although not curing her has meant she leads a pretty normal life for an 11 year old V. Without the supplement we would probably have had to put her down around last Christmas.
Not sure if it will help, but could be worth talking to your vet
hope you get it sorted.
Cheers
Gareth
May 6, 2008 at 10:55 pm
To help the neurologist, keep a record and timeline of what you observe each day: time he wakes up, uses the bathroom, eats; what, how much, and when he eats; how much and when he drinks; when he naps; how he sleeps (on his side, back, stomach); exercise - when-where-type-duration; describe his energy level and disposition before, during and after exercise; describe his energy level and disposition regarding medications - before, during, after; any changes in demeanor or behavior - compare current behavior and disposition to the past, observe whether his behavior or disposition changes from day-to-day and how, and whether his behavior or disposition changes during the day; etc. Basically, write down everything you observe, even if it doesn’t seem relevant to you. The neurologist will need as much information as possible to make a diagnosis and prescribe correct medication.
I’ll talk to some of the Vizsla breeders in the area, and will speak to my vet for you. Let us know what you find out. Poor guy!
– Renee (Laila’s mom)
May 7, 2008 at 4:27 am
From the Yahoo/Vizsla Talk board:
In a 10yr old dog I would be 1st ruling out brain tumor and tick borne diseases. BOTH can cause those symptoms, especially considering the low thyroid that has come on it….
Not sure where his owners live but I would search out a veterinary teaching hospital. They will be one of your best sources for up to date diagnostics as well as treatments!
Good Luck
Jen Miller
Stardust Beagles & Vizslas
May 7, 2008 at 4:31 am
Yahoo/Vizsla Talk:
Has your dog been checked for Equi-erlichia or Anaplasma phagocytophelaia as it is now known?
My dog had it and although she did not have the same twitching she had head bobbles. It is still neurological. May be worth a try. The same thing intermittently coming and going. Cured with medicine.
Nancy
(Melissa says: I’ve replied/asked what medicine was prescribed)
May 7, 2008 at 4:36 am
Yahhoo/Vizsla Talk:
Without watching the video…I know of a Vizsla that has “tremors” when on Frontline. Think Parkinson’s Disease type of tremors. No frontline, no tremors.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ms. Michel Berner
Home of the official Dual Champion Vizsla Database
MIRA Vizslas http://www.miravizslas.com
May 7, 2008 at 4:37 am
From Yahoo/Vizsla Talk:
I watched the video, and while there is definitely SOMETHING going on, it doesn’t match any of the epileptic type seizures I’ve ever seen. Has he been tested for Neospora ? It more often presents as a hind limb paresis, but “nodding” tremors have been reported in some dogs.
Lu Hart
May 7, 2008 at 4:39 am
From Yahoo/Vizsla Talk:
Has there been a tick panel done? Â Possibly a tick borne illness could present in this way from the info I have read about tick diseases.
Very sweet looking boy! Â hope you find some help.
Jan Sime
May 7, 2008 at 6:36 am
Last December my 5 year old started to exihbit physical symptoms VERY similar to these about 4 weeks after the purchase of a new dog bed for inside his crate. It started with a bit of sneezing and then progressed within 4 days to what looked like this. When I got him to the vet one of the first things they asked me about was new products in the house like new furniture or newer carpet, cleaners and at the time nothing rang a bell until that night when I went to tuck him in his crate. I pulled out the bed and replaced it with an old bed quilt and with in three days he was back to normal, and not a single symptom again. I’m not saying it is a dog bed in your case but it could be a reaction to something in your home that is finally manifesting itself to produce symptoms. I could not smell anything when I took a deep breath of the bed myself but about 10 minutes later my sinuses started to buzz and I felt light headed. I can only imagine what it would be like if I had to sleep on that for any amount of time. Night time was the only time he spent in the crate and it was not always every night. I hope this helps.
May 7, 2008 at 7:01 am
Another thought since it occured after your scent work, what are you using for that and could that be an issue? If not the actual product what else is there in that enviroment that it might be? It just looks so much like what my boy was going through it’s worth looking into especially if nothing else is showing up in the blood work. My boys blood work showed no sign of any toxin.
Feel free to e-mail me if you would like.
Eileen
May 7, 2008 at 7:09 am
Our very old dog, not a V and much older than Tucker, did this–head bobbling and slow whole body tremors, staggering, and sometimes even falling down–and our vet thought it was cardiac in origin. He heard an arrhythmia after listening to her chest for a LONG time and surmised that she was periodically not getting enough brain blood flow.
May 7, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Yahoo/Vizsla Talk comment:
Several dogs I have encountered with tick borne diseases present with this type of episode. I would highly recommend they test for all types of tick borne diseases, especially if he has any joint pain or stiffness…too,….unfortunately with his age it is hard to tell if it is his age or a disease causing stiffness and/or pain. I would also make sure in the tick panel they test for Equine Erichilosis (sp?) as many vizslas seem to be coming up with that lately. If all of those are negative, i would probably recommend seeing a neurologist to rule out brain tumors (probably via an MRI or catscan) unfortunately that is going to be expensive…I know its close to $2000 at MSU for those procedures. Another thought would be if all tick borne panels come back negative to try him on a round of Doxycliine for 6-8wks and see if there is any improvement. I have a dog whose tick panels were negative BUT his issues were completely resolved when he was put on Doxy.
Good Luck! Hope the owners get some answers!!
Jen
(Melissa says: I knew this group could come up with some items to test/look for/rule out. I’m crossing my fingers that something easily treatable gets diagnosed.)
May 7, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Yahoo/Vizsla Talk:
She was on high doses of Doxycycline for a long time though. Once on the Doxi, she was much better in less then a week, but had to say on it for two months. She also had a Imozol shot. That really helped. It has been 27 months since her last head bobble incident so I think we finally beat it.
Nancy
May 7, 2008 at 8:43 pm
May 8, 2008 at 5:04 am
Good luck! We’ll keep our fingers crossed for Tucker. If I see anymore viable comments on the discussion board I’ll re-post here. I thought those folks would have some viable options to explore.
Ticks ….ick….. they sure do suck. Despite Rockets short hair we’ll take a wire brush to him after a walk near/in a grassy area and we’ll also continue to check him whenever he’s “calm” (I can hear you laughing!!!)
Keep us posted.
Melissa
May 8, 2008 at 6:40 pm
It seems there’s been some concern about whether or not we have been able to get help from Tucker’s breeder regarding his condition, so we’d like to assure any interested parties that we’ve been in regular communication with them for the entire time we’ve had Tucker (i.e., his whole life). He has always been a perfectly fit and healthy dog, so when he began exhibiting these odd symptoms, one of the first things we did was get in touch with them to find out if any of his brothers or sisters or any other dogs in his line had developed something similar. (None have.)
In our opinion, we couldn’t have asked for a better breeder. They have always been helpful, interested, informative, and supportive, and even stopped by to visit Tucker out here in California when they were in the state for an event. (That’s a long way from Toronto, Ontario!) We apologize if we gave anyone the impression that we have not been able to reach the breeder or that we posted the video of Tucker because the breeder has been unhelpful, because nothing could be further from the truth. We would have no hesitation whatsoever about getting another dog from them, and I think that pretty much says all that needs to be said.
May 8, 2008 at 6:44 pm
[...] Symptoms [...]
May 8, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Hello! I cam over her per Gina’s request. I have an 11 year old dalmatian that was incorrectly diagnosed with lymphoma. We changed Vets and he has been correctly diagnosed with ehrlichiosis-a tick born disease. He has always taken Revolution-but who knew that he should be wearing a tic collar too to aid against other ticks too!
I am rambling right now because I have had a difficult night with Patch-so I might not be of much help at this moment. Patch went through a shaking period and still does it. IMO~shaking is a sign of pain and/or distress. I’m not sure what all tests have been done on your baby, but I do recommend a CBC test-blood test for tick diseases. If the test does come back negative-it needs to be done again because it is common for it to come back negative the first time.
I will try to read more about your baby and give you more feedback in the near future-but right now I can’t turn my leaky eyes off-lol!
Feel free to stop by my blog and read my Dogs page: I have links to posts about Patch’s journey on this roller coaster ride he has been on since last Thanksgiving 2007. I also just posted a recent update about him!
I wish you luck and you are in my thoughts and prayers as we speak!
p.s. I apologize for not being much help at this time
May 8, 2008 at 9:52 pm
p.s. I am reading some of the comments and Patch fits many of the scenarios~and has been correctly diagnosed with his tick disease. He was mis-diagnosed with lymphoma at the beginning of this journey. I soooooo wish he had been correctly diagnosed the first time and we might not be on this road we are on now! Ehrlichiosis is a serious disease and Patch’s is in the chronic stage. Most definitely have the tick panel done-twice if necessary…and when in doubt-seek a second opinion. That is what we did and found out he didn’t have lymphoma at all. All of that wasted time we could have been treating him sooner. OK~babbling again! BTW~we frequent some of the same blogs-good luck again!
May 14, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Thanks so much for your kind words and prayers! So what is going on in Tucker’s World? Any updates or news? Thinking about you and your family!
WOOF!
May 14, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Hi Mercedes. This is Tuck’s mom. I spoke with the neurologist today, and he has seen it take up to six months of soloxine before damage due to low thyroid is completely reversed. Tuck has been on soloxine for about four months now. He said he would be very surprised if an MRI turned anything up. I mentioned some of the things that people suggested here, and he didn’t seem to think there was anything to point us in any particular direction. He said that neurological things can be very elusive to figure out, and that as long as Tuck was enjoying life he wouldn’t really recommend further testing at this point. It took Tuck a few days to improve from last Monday when he had those stronger spasms. By mid-week he was much better, having only occasional mild spasms throughout the day. These mild ones don’t prevent him from playing with the other dogs or playing his favorite game “kill the hand” with us. I think the stress and anxiety of being tied up and not right next to me when we I was talking to the instructor, stressed him enough to bring on the stronger and more frequent spasms which he had for the next few days. Now I make sure that Tuck is with someone when I am laying the track so he won’t stress out. He just doesn’t like waiting and watching by himself.
Tuck’s tracking instructor highly recommended a holistic DVM whom she said is very good at figuring things out when others give up. I have scheduled a consultation for Tuck for mid-June. He’ll have been on the soloxine for five months then.